Speaker 2 0:00

I'm Alejandra Russi, and this is the Russi Hive, conversations with people who treat their work and life as a creative practice. Today, we go deep into the world of Marc Brown, the creator of Arthur, in the decisive moment when a single idea, born in uncertainty, expanded into a universe of empathy, humor, and childhood wonder that shaped generations. Stay for a conversation so rich, Marc reads aloud, yes, in full character, showing how humor and honesty still teach us to believe in ourselves. This podcast is presented by Ricco /Maresca. Thank you for joining me, Marc Brown, and welcome to the Russi Hive podcast.

Speaker 0:41

Great. I I think I hear bees.

Speaker 2 0:45

I am honored to have you here. So before we dive in, I have something for you. It's a letter from a fan that I would like to read to you.

Speaker 0:57

Okay.

Speaker 2 0:57

Okay. October 27, 1992. Dear Mr. Brown, I don't know you yet, and I've never met Arthur. Where I live in Bogota, the books that find me are called Goosebumps. They are sometimes scary, but they make me feel brave. I think I would have loved your world too. It feels like the kind of place where the air smells like crayons and everyone is just trying gently to be good. I'm seven years old, and I understand that words can draw and drawings can speak. I would have written to you about that if I had known you existed. Now I'm older and I do know you. I've been to your homes, sat at your table, and seen the quiet grace that seems to guide everything you do. So I wanted to send this letter in reverse from me here in the future to you back then to tell you that what you are creating will travel farther than you ever dreamed. Even to me who discovered your world much later and offered it to the little girl still living inside. Thank you for making that world possible for her and for the adult who finally got to tell you so. With love, a friend from the future, Allie.

Speaker 2:23

I wish more people could get in touch with their childhood inner self. Because it's such an important place to keep you honest. You know, I I had lost it, and uh it was because of picture books and uh having a young son who saw the world with such wonder, it really inspired me to try as hard as I could to get that perspective on the world. And I feel like I've done a fairly good job of it. Um because everything I do, um I reach into my own childhood to for ideas, inspiration.

Speaker 2 3:14

Of course. And I know you get a lot of fan mail, but never one that uh bypassed the time-space continuum. That was a first, right?

Speaker 1 3:21

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 3:23

It was meant to happen at some point. Yeah. So let me start by saying that I know you first and foremost as a person, and then much later as the cultural icon that you are. I am very sorry that I was never an Arthur girl, but I am now. And to that effect, I have a few books here, and I thought that you would read from some as a way to expand certain parts of our conversation. Sure. Let's start with the very beginning with Arthur's nose.

Speaker 3:56

I can remember the night when this book happened so clearly. I had just lost my job. I was teaching at a small college in Boston, and the college closed, and I went home and I was in a terrible mood, and my son Tolin asked for a bedtime story. I don't know what made me think of Aardvarks, other than I remember scrambling. What kind of I I want an animal, and I you know, I guess I started thinking alphabetically, and I thought, whoa, artvarks, they're very underserved in the world of children's literature.

Speaker 2 4:34

That's for sure.

Speaker 4:35

So it I picked an art vark.

Speaker 2 4:37

So this book was published in 1976, and Arthur was still a proper artvark with a wonderfully long snout. Yeah. And for everyone who's wondering, an artvark is a sort of pig meets anteater situation, uh long nose, big ears, and just kind of just enough quirk for to make it a perfect children's book character. So would you mind reading this for us?

Speaker 5:03

I would love to read this book. Okay, so it's dedicated to Tolin because he's heard the first story. Yeah. This is Arthur's house. This is Arthur. He is worried about his nose. This is Arthur's mom. This is Arthur's dad. This is Arthur's sister. They all love Arthur and they all like his nose. A chew! One day Arthur decided he didn't like his nose. He had a cold and his nose was red. His sister thought his nose looked funny. His nose was a nuisance at school. Francine, who sat in front of Arthur, complained to the teacher that Arthur's nose was always bothering her.

Speaker 1 5:52

I want to change my seat, she says.

Speaker 5:56

When Arthur played hide and seek, friends always found him first. Snuff. Poor Arthur, his nose is sticking out from behind the tree. His friends thought his nose was funny. But what could he do about it? Sniffled. He could change his nose. That's what he could do about it. Arthur told his friends that he was going to the rhinologist for a new nose. His friends were very surprised. Sniff. Dr. Louise was very helpful. She suggested that Arthur try on pictures of different noses. That way he could choose the one he liked best. Sniff snuff. Arthur tried on all kinds of noses. Chicken, fish, koala bear, hippopotamus, elephant, armadillo, toucon. This was going to be a difficult decision. The goat, rabbit, an alligator, a mouse, a zebra, and a rhinoceros. Arthur's friends waited outside to see which nose he would choose. I wonder what his new nose will look like. Do you think it will look better than mine? I'm gonna miss Arthur's old nose. I can't believe it. It's Arthur! Wow! Maybe he won't want to play with us. Arthur hadn't changed his nose at all. I tried on every nose there was. I'm just not me without my nose, said Arthur. It's a nice nose. I still want to change my seat at school. There's a lot more to Arthur than his nose.

Speaker 2 7:51

That was beautiful. Thank you.

Speaker 7:54

When I was reading this book a few months ago, and I thought about uh the last line of this book. There's a lot more to Arthur than his nose. Little did I know when I wrote this book how much more there would be about Arthur. It started something I couldn't even dream about.

Speaker 2 8:17

Yeah, so that last line, there's a lot more to Arthur than his nose, is a message to children about self-acceptance. But do you think it also speaks about the artist behind it and accepting something about yourself through your work?

Speaker 8:32

All our books are therapeutic. We're working through different issues in our lives. And I I didn't realize that until fairly recently.

Speaker 2 8:42

Yeah. You've said Arthur was born on one of your lowest moments, that bedtime story that you told your son. Looking back, do you think, what do you think he saved you from, or perhaps saved in you?

Speaker 8:56

I think I saw that he liked the story, and it gave me some confidence that maybe I could write stories. I knew I wanted to be an illustrator, uh, but I didn't feel that I had the confidence to write stories. You know, when I think about it, I had a grandmother and a great-grandmother who were wonderful storytellers. And I think growing up with them, hearing stories whenever we wanted them, my sisters and I, uh, it gave me a little confidence that maybe I could tell stories, write them down. Um, and and I think um that night um it changed my life, really. And uh I, you know, I'm grateful that I had a son who cared about what I did, and he certainly helped me have the confidence to try and do this.

Speaker 2 9:56

How old was he when you told him the story?

Speaker 9:59

He was about three and a half.

Speaker 2 10:01

That's quite young. Does he remember it?

Speaker 10:03

Yeah. Uh no, he doesn't. He doesn't.

Speaker 2 10:06

Well, I mean, I don't blame him. He's very young. I'm sure he's very proud that the story was was made for him.

Speaker 10:15

Well, uh, we work together.

Speaker 2 10:17

Yeah.

Speaker 10:17

Which is a lot of fun. I never expected that, nor did he.

Speaker 2 10:21

Yeah. In retrospect, does Arthur feel like chance or like fate?

Speaker 10:26

You know, I probably shouldn't say this because it's it it feels a little boastful or um maybe too revealing. But I grew up thinking I was destined to do something special. I don't know where that came from or what it meant. But there was there was an underlying confidence that something good was going to happen, and I just had to find it.

Speaker 2 10:57

So by the late 1980s, Arth looks a little different. Uh, the drawings have softened, the palette is more nuanced, and you can sense that both he and his world have settled in. It feels like the work of someone who's found his voice. So let's go to Elwood City, shall we?

Speaker 11:18

Okay. Well, and you know, a lot happened in the interim. The first book was done uh with a kind of uh art called color separation, which is very time consuming. And I didn't just paint orange for this background. I had to figure out the percentage of yellow and the percentage of red that made that color that I wanted, and do it in that amount of gray on different layers. One for red, one for black, one for blue, and one for what did I say? Green. No, blue, red, yellow, and black. Those are the four colors. The world changed and and printing became much more inexpensive. And uh uh it it was just a wonderful, exciting change for me. So I started working in watercolors and colored pencils. And this story, all my stories come from real life. And I had an algebra teacher, Mr. Rathman, who was uh just a terrorist. He made students in my class cry when they didn't know the answers when they went to the board to do a problem. And you know, he never left me somehow, and I thought he could be Arthur's teacher, and maybe he could be a little more understanding. So, Arthur's teacher trouble. The bell rang, the first day of school was over, kids ran out of every classroom, everyone but room 13. Here the students filed out slowly, in alphabetical order. See you tomorrow, said their teacher, Mr. Ratburn.

Speaker 1 13:10

I can't believe he gave us homework on the first day, said Arthur.

Speaker 13:15

I hadn't a rat last year, said Prunella. Boy, do I feel sorry for you. Make one wrong move, warned Binky Barnes, and he puts you on death row. He's really a vampire with magical powers, said Chris. As everyone was leaving, the principal came out of his office. Are you ready for the September spell a thon? he asked. Yes, cheered the crowd. Who's going to win this year? asked the principal. Me, everyone shouted.

Speaker 1 13:50

If I win again this year, do I get my name on the trophy twice?

Speaker 13:54

asked Prunella. Not if I can help it, whispered Francine. When Arthur got home, he slammed the back door. How was school? Mother asked. I got the strictest teacher in the whole world, grumbled Arthur. Have a chocolate chip cookie, said Mother. Don't have time, said Arthur. I have tons of homework. I'll eat Arthur's cookie, said DW. I don't have any homework. You don't even go to school, said Arthur. I know, smiled DW. After dinner, Arthur was still doing homework. What's that? asked DW. It's a map of Africa, said Arthur. Looks like a pepperoni pizza, said DW. Next year, when I'm in kindergarten, I won't have any homework. Miss Meeker never gives it. Mom, called Arthur. DW's being a pest. Time for bed, said Mother. You can finish your map of Florida in the morning. Africa, said Arthur. The next day, Mr. Ratburn announced a spelling test for Friday. I want you to study very hard, he said. The test will have a hundred words. Buster looked pale. And, continued Mr. Ratburn, the two students with the highest scores will represent our class at the all-school spell-a-thon. That week everyone in Arthur's class studied harder than ever. Arthur spent a lot of time looking for a quiet place to study. Suddenly, it was Friday and time for the test. Arthur could smell Miss Sweetwater's class making popcorn. He could hear Mrs. Fink's class leaving for a trip to the aquarium. Why did we have to get stuck with the rat? He whispered to Francine. Mr. Ratburn corrected their papers during lunch. Class, he said, most of you did very well on the test, but only two of you spelled every word correctly. Muffy smiled. Francine hiccuped. Buster patted his good luck charm. Mr. Ratburn cleared his throat. Our class representatives for the spell-a-thon will be the Brain and Arthur. There must be some mistake, said Muffy. Mr. Ratburn gave Arthur and the Brain each a special list of words. Just study these and you'll be ready for the September spell-a-thon in two weeks, he said. Arthur's family helped him study. Grandma asked Arthur his spelling words. How about your C H O R E S? Father asked. Have you made your B E D? Mother added. DW helped too. When Francine and Buster came over, DW answered the door. Arthur can't play but I can, she said. I don't have to study. I can't believe the spellathon is finally here, said Grandma. Maybe now we'll get a little peace and quiet, DW said. Good luck, Arthur, said Mother and Father. From backstage, Arthur could hear the whole school out in the auditorium. Well, today's the big day, said Mr. Rathburn. How do you feel? I feel fine, the brain answered. Arthur gulped. Uh I wish I were still back in bed. The principal welcomed everyone and explained the rules. The brain had the first turn. He stepped up to the microphone. The first word is fear, said the principal. F-E-R-E, said the brain, a little too quickly. Ah, I'm sorry, said the principal. That's not correct. Are you sure? asked the brain. What dictionary are you using? The brain wasn't the only one to drop out quickly. The representatives from Miss Sweetwater's and Mrs. Fink's class were gone in a flash. Before long, only Arthur and Prunella were left. It was Prunella's turn. The word is preparation, said the principal. Prunella looked down at her feet. Could I have the definition, please? she asked after a moment. Preparation, the principal repeated. The process of getting ready. Oh, of course, said Prunella. P R E P she paused. E R A T I O N I'm sorry, that's incorrect, said the principal. Now Arthur gets a chance to spell it. Arthur looked out over the audience and took a deep breath. Preparation, he said. P or E P A or A T I O N. Correct, said the principal. Everyone in Mr. Ratburn's class cheered. Then Mr Ratburn went to the microphone. I am very proud of Arthur, he said. In fact, I'm proud of my whole class. They worked very hard. This is the last third grade that I'll have in the spell-thon. But next year I look forward to a new challenge. Teaching kindergarten.

Speaker 2 19:49

I love the voice acting. So by this point, you're fully living inside of Arthur's world. It wasn't just a character.

Speaker 19:59

And I was having great fun.

Speaker 2 20:01

Yes. It wasn't just a character anymore. It was a whole universe. What did it feel like as a creator to realize you've built a place you could keep returning to?

Speaker 20:11

It was a wonderful librarian in Dallas, Texas. Her name is Mary Langford. I started visiting schools to stay alive between royalty checks, which got slightly larger, but you know, they weren't great. And she said, Mark, do you want to make a living doing this? And I said, Yes, I love it. And she said, Well, you got to write a few holiday books. And so she was right. I started writing Arthur holiday books and they became very popular.

Speaker 2 20:46

So you have this way of blending humor and honesty so naturally in your books. It feels effortless. Do you think that's the key that children can sense when something is genuine, even if it's funny?

Speaker 21:01

I don't know if it's humor that helps them decide if it's genuine or not. But humor is an amazing way to teach children. I think it's uh probably one of the most powerful ways to get children's attention. That's one of the secrets about Arthur. Humor and something is learned in the process.

Speaker 2 21:24

Yeah. So emotional honesty is felt and moral truth is taught. How do you keep both alive in the same story?

Speaker 21:35

Well, I think children look to the media for truth. They're so oddly uh disappointed or misled. It's just something I do very naturally, I think. Uh and I'm very conscious of children looking to the media for truth. So uh I try to do Stay on a straight line when I'm writing my books and keep things honest for them as well as helpful.

Speaker 2 22:09

So every single book in the Core Arthur Adventure series, 32 of them, I believe, is hand-drawn and painted by you. Even when the digital tools entered the industry, you continued working traditionally. What is it about that tactile connection, pencil, paper, watercolor that you've never wanted to give up?

Speaker 22:32

I think children, when they're reading characters that are in a series, they really appreciate continuity. Even in the animated show of Arthur, I get letters from kids and young adults saying what happened to the animation, because the first episodes were done by hand, and there's such a difference. You know, the watercolor backgrounds were so beautiful, and now everything is done by computer. I often wish I had the time to learn how to use the computer to digitally alter a piece of art that I do by hand, but then to play with it on the screen. I think that would be a lot of fun.

Speaker 2 23:24

So after decades of drawing the same characters, did you develop creative rituals like small cues that helped you cross the threshold into Arthur's world?

Speaker 23:36

Well, uh I was a little nervous about having to come up with sets for Arthur. And I realized that um, well, gee, Arthur is kind of me when I was in third grade, and all my friends in third grade became Arthur characters. I was uh stressing over uh Arthur's living room, which I hadn't done in a book up until this date. And I thought, well, just go into our living room and draw what you see. And so I started using my kids' bedrooms and our kitchen and the living room as a basis to draw these rooms. It became very easy and fun.

Speaker 2 24:19

So it's like um one world incorporated into another.

Speaker 24:24

Yeah, yeah. People say, Do you dream of these characters? And I don't. Thank heaven. Uh. But I I do um, yeah, I was really lucky to figure that out. It just made life so much easier, or I could just picture Arthur and DW sitting on a sofa in in our living room.

Speaker 2 24:45

Yeah. You wrote a picture book is a delicate scale with words on one side and pictures on the other. You use words to do only what your pictures can't do. And I'd never thought about this, about how essential it is for a children's book author to also be an artist. Um, how do you think being primarily a visual storyteller changes the message you can deliver?

Speaker 25:14

I'm not sure that I can answer that, but uh I do want to say something about the delicate scale that I balance in every book and how uh that's such a wonderful way of self-editing to go through because I want to pare the text that I write down to the bare minimum. I know parents come to bedtimes after very busy days, and I don't want to take more time away from them than I have to to tell my story. I think that a picture book is a wonderful conversation starter for parents. It's a way for parents to share their values and their own ideas. Stop the picture book and say, well, what do you think about what Arthur just did? Is that good? Um and you know, uh that's something I'm very conscious of when I when I'm writing as well. What questions can I imagine parents building into these stories?

Speaker 2 26:20

And how do you envision the pictures interacting with the words in that act of reading to little kids?

Speaker 26:29

Well, they have to they have to go together. And uh the thing that I didn't realize I was so prepared for when Arthur made the leap to animation was the fact that I see these stories moving in my head before I knew I had the luxury of uh having animation. The problem for me is where do I stop frame? In this movie that's running in my head, it has to match the words well. And uh sometimes I struggle with well, I that's too much for kids to take in with this one picture. I'm somehow I'm gonna have to change that text or break it into two pictures.

Speaker 2 27:15

Uh yeah, it is a delicate balance.

Speaker 27:17

The dirty work of illustrating picture books.

Speaker 2 27:21

So the Arthur TV show premiered on PBS Kids in 1996, and the final season aired in early 2022. Uh the last episode marked the official end of new production after 25 seasons and 253 episodes, not counting specials, uh, making Arthur the longest-running children's animated series in US history. And of course, the show will live indefinitely in the PBS digital library and in the streaming apps. Um, so going back to when you first agreed to adapt Arthur to television, what was your biggest hope and what was your biggest fear?

Speaker 28:06

My biggest hope was that kids would like it. And my biggest fear was sharing Arthur with other people and what would happen. And um maybe I'm a little bit of a control freak, but that's probably good. I think uh people who are many people who are successful are control freaks. It makes me think of the first night uh up in Montreal when I met the animators, and they had given me a lot of sketches of an episode, one of the first episodes, and the characters and a blue pencil. And I had the blue pencil to correct the way things were drawn. I would just draw over them and make my corrections. Well, this they gave me these drawings about 11 o'clock in the morning. It was 6:30 at night. I was still drawing with a blue pencil, and um the producers and the director came in and said, Mark, it's time we're going out to dinner. We have this great French restaurant. And I said, Oh, I'll catch up with you later. I'm still dry. I'm gonna just do a few more of these. And then so it got very quiet, and I'm the only one there in the studio with my blue pencil. And I had this um important moment where I I I stopped and I looked at what I was correcting, and I thought, you know, these are not bad. And I'm now a part of a team. This isn't you, Mark, and you're not doing everything. You have to rely on other people to help make this happen. And um I decided to put down the pencil and to trust other people, and the stars were in alignment when when people came together to make this series. Uh I got such great talents to work with. Our director, Greg Bailey, he was um directing the Richard Scary series, and that's what made me respect him because he honored the way Richard Scary drew these characters so well and got them to move on the screen. And I was given another director, and that was the one thing about this picture that didn't feel right to me. And I was in the elevator with my executive producer, Carol Greenwald, and I said, Carol, I don't think I like this director. He's not right for this. There's something wrong here. And the doors open, and in walked Greg Bailey. You know, I said, I have to tell you how much I admire what you're doing with Richard Scary. I said, You wouldn't be interested in directing Arthur, would you? And it opened the door to him thinking about it. And before I knew it, he was our director. And he, for 25 years, and he brought such imagination, uh, sometimes strangely quirky. But he he brought so much to the world of Arthur and had this photographic memory of all the characters and what we had done in every show that preceded the one we were working on. And kids know if you make a mistake, I get letters.

Speaker 2 31:37

Yes. Oh, you do? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 31:39

I get lots of letters.

Speaker 2 31:40

If you repeat yourself or there's something inconsistent. Yes, I can see that. So they say that a good parent knows when to let go. And this kind of would be the creative equivalent, right? Of letting go. What you did with PBS and the whole process of adaptation.

Speaker 31:57

Yeah, parenting is the most difficult job in the world. You are a trapeze artist and you have to know when to let go.

Speaker 2 32:06

So what aspects of Arthur's character or world did you feel you had to protect in the shift to TV? And which ones were you more open to change and growth?

Speaker 32:18

Well, the characters had to be true to what kids knew in the books. And all the first episodes were based on each of the books that were published. So that was pretty easy. But then we found when the show aired that the audience for Arthur, which was I thought four to eight years old for the books, grew exponentially in both directions. There were kids who were watching Barney or Sesame Street who wanted to watch Arthur. And this confounded the people at Sesame Street because they couldn't believe that kids could take in a more complex story like Arthur at that age. But they did, and they wanted, they uh kid, kids are aspirational. You have to give them more credit than you think you do. Kids wanted, they were hungry for more stories, and it gave us the opportunity as creative people to make new characters, to make new situations, to have themes for a given season that we could play with. And I had such good playmates. So it was all good.

Speaker 2 33:31

It's interesting. So the TV show started feeding the books as the books fed the TV show with the loop.

Speaker 1 33:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2 33:38

Um, what surprised you most about seeing Arthur move, speak, breathe for the very first time?

Speaker 33:45

I don't think I was surprised. I I sat in a room with all of these creative people and they said, okay, show us how Arthur walks. So I and you know, uh, because I I see these characters moving in my head before I had animation, it wasn't a big surprise to see it happen on the screen.

Speaker 2 34:07

So you chose PBS over a commercial network, which speaks about your commitment to education. Now, with public broadcasting, facing major funding cuts. What do you think is truly at stake, not just for shows like Arthur, but for the next generation of creators and audiences?

Speaker 34:27

Oh I I am just sick uh at what's happening with the important cuts in education, in educational television, uh for children, for adults. I guess I I I am in denial thinking that we are going to get through this and things are going to be better. That's just, I'm just an optimist by nature. I'm confident that that we will be able to stay the course. It's it's a wave and it's a little bumpy at the moment.

Speaker 2 35:04

Yes. Um so Arthur has always felt like every kid and Elwood City like every town. In other words, um familiar enough to feel like home, but open enough for everyone to belong. Um that sense of inclusivity, of reaching every child, no matter who or where they are, feels so central to your your work. Do you think that spirit can still survive in today's media landscape?

Speaker 35:35

You know, I wish I knew more about the kids' media landscape. I'm so often disappointed when I watch uh programming for kids. I think children are terribly underserved uh in this part of uh their world. But you're making me think of the books that I was had done before the show were pretty much uh white America in a nice suburban town. And that was not gonna fly when Arthur made it to television because he had to appeal to a much wider audience. And I I wanted all to that was the reason I chose to work with animals, because no matter what a child's uh skin color was, they could identify with any of these characters that they wanted to. So we we made sure that Francine and Buster lived in apartment buildings because that hadn't been established yet. So it was still true to what I had started, but it it opened the door for us to deal with different socioeconomic groups. And I remember the the director saying, Well, where does Arthur live? Where does Francine live? Where does Buster live? And so I drew this map of Elwood City and all of their where they lived and you know, where the school was, where the shopping mall was? It was so much fun. I love drawing maps.

Speaker 2 37:09

So a little break from Arthur Okay. You've collaborated with several authors throughout your career, including your wife, Lori Krasney Brown and R.L. Stein, whom I mentioned in the beginning of this episode. Um how have those partnerships expanded your own creative language and perhaps changed the way you see your work?

Speaker 37:32

Lori and I um have worked on some really, I think, important books for kids and families about divorce and about death. And you know, she comes to this world, we kind of switched where we were in life. She was at Harvard studying children's media, and I, you know, was an artist illustrating books. I still think of myself as an illustrator who happened to write to uh have books to illustrate. Um, but uh Lori, um, I I have learned a lot from her by the way she comes to the books, and we always have these great conversations about um, I'm always looking to distill what she writes because there's always the kernel of goodness and brilliance in it. I've been lucky to work with some great Judy Sierra is a wonderful storyteller and just a genius with rhyme, which is so appealing to children of the age that I direct my stories to. And so that was a treat to illustrate every one of her books. R. L. Stein is not spooky. He's a very funny guy, and I am really lucky to call him a friend. You know where we met on an airplane that just happened to be Air Force One, going to Russia. What? To speak at uh Putin's uh was married at that time, and she was having a children's book festival, and she was um trying to repeat what Laura Bush had done here in our country. So she invited Bob and me and another author, Peter Laurentius, who writes more adult children's books. And so we became great friends. Uh we were stuck in Moscow and uh had someone who was following us around to make sure that we were safe. I rem remember the joy of uh speaking to children and not being able to speak Russian, but having a translator. And I just drew for these kids, and we had the best time. And that night we went to dinner at the Kremlin. Wow! And I it was like an out-of-body experience. There was this room the size of a small playing field, covered in gold leaf, and uh the librarians from all over Russia were there, they were being celebrated, first ladies from every country in the world were there, and I I was at a table uh and I felt a little tap on my shoulder, and it was Laura Bush saying, Mark, would you like to meet President Putin? I said, Yes. And she there he was. He was following her, and so we met and we, you know, had a nice conversation that was very pleasant uh about children and books and the importance of reading, and and I noticed he had a very nice suit. So yeah, that was that was it. I I still can't quite believe it happened. The last image I have of Moscow was at the airport. We were ready to board Air Force One, and I was taking pictures with my cell phone, and all of a sudden, a Secret Services me, and I'm down on the ground, and he's trying to take my phone away from me. So didn't you know you're not allowed to take pictures? You're on the ground? I'm on the ground, and he's trying to take my phone.

Speaker 2 41:23

Oh my god.

Speaker 41:24

And I said, Well, no, I didn't know that. And I said, Well, what I'll erase them. You're gonna erase them? Yes, I'm gonna erase them right now. I didn't erase them. And I remembered something that Mrs. Kingston wrote on my report card in third grade, does not follow directions. But I've got the picture.

Speaker 2 41:48

She was right. She was right.

Speaker 41:51

So she was a great teacher.

Speaker 2 41:54

How long ago was this?

Speaker 41:56

Well, it was, uh I don't, I'm terrible with dates, but it was the last year of the Bush and Bush 2000s. Okay. I got to work with Barbara Bush uh for many years, uh helping raise funds for her literacy initiative, and um had a wonderful day. She invited me to tour the White House. And I'm remembering this story because I am just appalled at what's happening right now with our White House, the People's House, where the East Wing has been torn off without any permission, any discussion. In the darkness of night, the claws of the machinery uh tearing our history away. But I did have this wonderful day with Barbara Bush, and she took me on a tour of the White House uh with a presidential historian uh to deliver any facts that I had. And she didn't know, but in third grade, I tried to build a model of the White House and I wanted to write a book about it. So it I was like in heaven.

Speaker 2 43:10

Back to R. L. Stein just for a second.

Speaker 43:13

Okay.

Speaker 2 43:13

Um does drawing monsters tap into a different creative muscle?

Speaker 43:18

Oh yes. Uh when he gave me this wonderful book, uh uh World uh Little Shop of Monsters.

Speaker 2 43:29

Which we have here, by the way.

Speaker 43:30

Oh, we do?

Speaker 2 43:32

There you go.

Speaker 43:33

Yeah. And I started uh drawing these monsters and they came so easily. And I realized that oh, oh God, this one's my gym teacher. Oh, this is my attorney. That's my agent that I fired. And it was like, wow. They all were based on real people, and they looked exactly like this.

Speaker 2 43:58

I believe you. So um R. L. Stein wrote the words and you did the you did the drawings. Yeah, he writes the book. Yeah.

Speaker 44:09

Yeah. Going on a book tour with him is so much fun.

Speaker 2 44:13

Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. Yes. Now about your recent project, uh Hop. It's a return to the very beginning of childhood, to those first friendships and discoveries. Um I think writing for preschoolers must be such a specific challenge, right? Making something that simple, that early, that pure.

Speaker 44:34

It's just more fun. You have less boundaries, less guidelines, I think. And children at that age are so free and spontaneous with what they say and what they do, and so honest. I always love the kids' questions when I visit a school. I'm remembering a second grader in Texas when I asked for questions. I said, Don't be afraid, you can ask me anything. His hand shot up before all the others, and he said, if you're a famous author, how come you're not dead? I had no answer. Next.

Speaker 2 45:17

Well, you're one of the lucky ones. You're one of the lucky ones. Yeah. So finally, back to Arthur, Believe in Yourself, published in 2022, came out alongside the final season of the TV show, and you described it as a kind of memoir. You mentioned your grandmother Thora, your high school teacher, and importantly, Fred Rogers, people who helped shape the person behind Arthur. How have their lessons continued to guide you both as a storyteller and as a person?

Speaker 45:52

I couldn't believe that I had the good fortune to be a friend with him, because I remember watching my kids watch his program, and I saw the respect that he gave to children in the way he spoke to them and the way he thought about so carefully what he wanted to say, the content. And the things he chose to talk about with kids were so brilliant and so appropriate. We were going to do a project. He had sent me a project and right before he passed away, and we just didn't make it happen fast enough. He was just the gold standard as far as I was concerned in making programming for children using the media in positive and helpful ways. Who else?

Speaker 2 46:49

Your grandma?

Speaker 46:50

Grandma Thora was, she gave me the confidence to tell stories because she could tell great stories. And I loved her spooky stories the best because she would take out her false teeth.

Speaker 2 47:02

Uh oh.

Speaker 47:04

And that made them really spooky.

Speaker 2 47:06

As part of the storytelling process. Wow.

Speaker 47:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2 47:10

That's committing.

Speaker 47:10

When the witch would enter, the teeth came out.

Speaker 2 47:13

Ooh. That's pretty scary. Now the witch shit. Did that give you nightmares? No. No. I'm sure it was great.

Speaker 47:22

I had a vivid imagination. I could turn it off, you know.

Speaker 2 47:25

Yeah. So after all these years, and even though he will always be around eight years old in people's imaginations, Arthur has changed his look, his world, his tone, and so have you. Do you think artists age through their work, not just alongside it?

Speaker 47:48

I would like to think that I've gathered um some knowledge about what I'm doing. I I'll never be finished. I'll be, you know, thinking about new projects and ideas as I'm leaving the earth. Uh it's I just feel so lucky that I got to do what I love doing most. I love going to work every morning and I love thinking of new projects. I have projects in my mind right now for animation projects, book projects, and uh just finding the time to do it all.

Speaker 2 48:28

Anything you can tell us about?

Speaker 48:31

Uh well, maybe Arthur and maybe DW are not finished. Okay. That's all I can say.

Speaker 2 48:38

That's all you can say. So to close, I thought it would be lovely if you read your list titled What I Learned from Arthur. Um, from this book over here.

Speaker 48:51

Ah, wow. Oh, I think this came from um a talk I was giving at Leslie University, and I was struggling about what I was what I wanted to say to them and what they would be interested in. And I was sharing my worries with Eli, our youngest son, and he said, Oh, dad, they're all freaking out. They're gonna graduate. You know, give them something that that will help them in this transition. So uh this is what I came up with. What I learned from Arthur. Number one, expect detours. DW would tell you that you're in big trouble. The worst is yet to come. Arthur would add that detours can offer adventures, discoveries, and opportunities. Number two, be assertive. Go after what you want. Each of us is capable of making powerful commitments. But first, we need an extraordinary goal. Number three, be nice. Remember to say please and thank you, and a sense of humor can be very helpful too. Number four, accept help and offer it too. We're all in this together. Number five, know your business and know who you are. People are drawn to those who are strong and know who they are. Be that person. Always tell the truth. You are only as good as your character and your conscience. Number seven, life is a process. Maybe Fred Rogers said it best. Discovering the truth about ourselves is a lifetime's work, but it's worth the effort. Number eight, no matter how hard we plan, destiny takes over. Be open to change. It's not all about you. Number nine, true success is doing what you love to do. Make a commitment to go after your best, love what you do, and if you don't love what you're doing, keep looking. Now go out there, stay strong, and keep dreaming.

Speaker 2 51:18

Marc Brown, thank you so much.

Speaker 51:20

You're welcome. What fun this was.

Speaker 2 51:22

This was fun. If this conversation resonated with you, follow the show wherever you listen and find me on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, and Substack at Roosty Hive. If someone came to mind for the hive, send guest suggestions to guests at roostyhive.com. And if you just want to say hi, it's hello at roostyhive.com. Original music and sonic identity for the Roosty Hive by Ant Food. Until next time, let your life be a creative act.